EML Radio Interview: page 1

INTERVIEWS WITH NOBEL LAUREATES AND OTHER EMINENT SCHOLARS
BROUGHT OUT ON THE OCCASION OF
WORLD CONGRESS
FOR THE SYNTHESIS OF
SCIENCE AND RELIGION
BOMBAY – 1986
THE BHAKTIVEDANTA INSTITUTE
BOMBAY

Pages: 51-56

INTERVIEW WITH

ESTHER M. LEDERBERG

b. December 18, 1922

A geneticist, Prof. Lederberg completed her graduation studies at Hunter College and Stanford before going on to get a Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin in 1959. Her research interests include genetics of micro-organisms, DNA repair, bacterial recombination and transformation. She has received many honours and awards for her research work including the Pasteur award in 1956. She is currently Professor of medical microbiology at Stanford University.

Interview: Page 1

TDS:

How could scientific and religious values be put together?

EML:

In some way they can be. Actually science works on the ideals expressed by religion, for example the qualities of integrity and honesty. The whole thing works if you follow practices that religion has shown us. The intellectual understanding of how our planet is functioning comes close to religious experiences. These are the points that immediately come to my mind. When you are involved in the laboratory, you see the whole body of knowledge as beautiful biology with its intricate working principles. It is very inspirational when we get the answers.

TDS:

In his biography, Louis Pasteur has mentioned that whenever he goes to the laboratory he always prays to the Creator. Today you find that most of the scientists tend to neglect the existence of a Creator or God. I would like to hear your reflections in this regard.

EML:

These days everyone is so busy. It is also hard to formulate in concrete terms those things that many religions are saying. God is so enormous that He is essentially unknowable. Some people find Him so big and abstract that they do not like to put God into ordinary words, and they fall into the trap of worrying whether God is a man or a woman, or like the Greeks they have this myth that God has power, but not enough.

TDS:

This means that scientists are too busy with their own work to have any time to think about God.

EML:

I don't know about that so I can't say.

TDS:

The ancient Vedic literatures of India like Bhagavad Gita suggest that the nature of the individual life and the Supreme Life or God can be described in concrete and logical terms. They even specifically list the number of different types in each species — birds, animals, plants, etc. and describe their transformations according to the subtle laws of nature.

EML:

It might be. I personally have no way to say yes or no. I won't close off anything.

TDS:

Many molecular biologists like Crick and others, present that the modern view of life is that of a complex chemical reaction. Crick even claims that an organism can even be created. Can everything in a living system be explained merely by chemical andy physical laws?

EML:

He said this in 1966 almost 20 years ago. Has this happened? We haven't learned much more since then. We don't know if we can even make a virus. So I'll say that his assumption is over-confident.

TDS:

Workers in the field of evolutionary and pre-biotic chemistry are very enthusiastic to say that life could be synthesized eventually. As a microbiologist, what do you think of this possibility?

EML:

I attended classes and seminars where we were always thinking about it. I studied with Beadle and Tatum when I worked for my Master's degree here at Stanford (1944-1946). We were very interested in a man called Oparin. He gave a very nice lecture here in 1969. We were always thinking that if life arose again it would be digested by something else, which explained why we do not see the origin of life — because it would be eaten up by simple bacteria at least. That was Beadle's idea of why we con't see creation again. But we can't say yes and we can't say no. If you believe it, you can try. But so far nothing has happened. Although we have a lot of technology, we still don't understand how things are put together.

TDS:

So it will be very good if scientists maintain a very honest attitude. One difficulty is that many of the scholars like Crick make these bold remarks without solid scientific evidence and there has been reaction from the masses when they find that these statements do not come true.

EML:

Crick can say anything, it doesn't trouble me. I'm glad when he does say these things, because it stimulates the mind. I read his book at the time it came out. It was interesting and I thought it was nice that he was expressing his ideas in that way.

TDS:

Don't you think we lose faith and respect in them when they maintain such an attitude?

EML:

No, because scientists can do and say all kinds of things. Sometimes they will slip up and sometimes they will not. I think the important thing is that people like yourselves who are organising conferences of this kind, try to provide a platform for everybody to speak and express their opinions. That is the only way we'll get anywhere. If you have a rigid scientific idea and nothing else is permitted, we will stop and will not make any progress.

Current Address	:	Dept. of Medical Microbiology, Stanford University, Stanford, California, CA 94305
Interviewed by	:	T. D. Singh Pawan K. Saharan
Recorded on	:	October 14, 1985 at Stanford University